Hi Phyto,
You guys in the NE don't draw a line to the letterbox in chalk?

Don

I have to say that this summer I received several rather angry emails
from people who came to MDI to letterbox and could not find mine. I
think asking for hints from a placer is an art and best done in the
best of moods! Sometimes I will respond and other times I won't (esp.
if I feel like the searcher is accusing me of being a crappy
placer!!!) Generally, I don't give hints. My clues are not the hardest
in the world and the way I see it, if it was gauranteed you'd find
your box every time then letterboxing wouldn't be as exciting and fun
as it is. I think I have NOT FOUND as many boxes here in Maine as I
have found. I think there are people who expect a line of chalk to a
box and it is these folks who need to relax and do a little research
first. Anyone who has searched for Legerdemaine (and Phyto) boxes
knows the excitement of researching, pondering, repondering,
re-researching, commisserating and crying out of frustration when the
pieces just don't fit...then one day just getting it.

Limur


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "gwendontoo"
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Phyto,
> You guys in the NE don't draw a line to the letterbox in chalk?
>
> Don

This is a message I received about one of my letterboxes:

"Was at your location and there was no letterbox. Friday"

That's it!

So....I went and checked on it. (It had only been out a week!) It was there!
And had been found by others! I wasted an hour or more of my time to confirm
it. I emailed the person to tell them it was there and if they needed hints
to email me back. Never heard from them again. No thank you...no
questions...nothing.

It's common courtesy. If I get a response about my letterboxes...I try to
respond back to the person. If I find one....I use the Contact the Placer to
let them know it's safe and sound. I have emailed someone about one I
couldn't find. I really thought I was in the right spot. They never got back
to me. So...I'm not going to bother looking for it again. No big deal!

Peppermint Patti :)






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Peppermint Patti" wrote:
> This is a message I received about one of my letterboxes:
>
> "Was at your location and there was no letterbox. Friday"
>

Love it! My favorite recent note said, "we didn't follow your
directions since we knew exactly where the box would be and it is
definitely missing. We really wish you would update your missing
boxes so we wouldn't waste our time on them."

Until then, our favorite went something like "if you'll change your
clues to mention xyz, we'll stop hassling you about them."

When we first started boxing, we were really surprised at how upset
people could get about not finding letterboxes. Now we understand
that it's just part of the passion and laugh about it. And share it
with you when the chance comes up. Neener, neener, neener.

Jay in CT, most of whose boxes are bright-yellow-chalk-mark explicit,
and most of whose contact the placer notes have been a delight.

> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Peppermint Patti" wrote:
> > This is a message I received about one of my letterboxes:
> >
> > "Was at your location and there was no letterbox. Friday"
> >

..and my personal favorite:
"where is the box? why do u put things in degrees. it just makes it hard for people to
find someting in degrees. (use north, south and ect...)"

However, the odd one like this is definitely the exception and it gave me a good
laugh. So what's the harm?

Funhog (who continues to baffle 'em with those pesky degrees.)

Try radians instead!

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "funhog1" wrote:
>
> Funhog (who continues to baffle 'em with those pesky degrees.)

or Azimuth !
--- bcostley wrote:

>
>
> Try radians instead!
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "funhog1"
> wrote:
> >
> > Funhog (who continues to baffle 'em with those
> pesky degrees.)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion
> Toolbar.
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
>
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/60TolB/TM
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

Waxing philosophic for a moment, one of the things that attracts my
clan to letterboxing is it's democratic nature - anyone can place
and anyone can look.

The implicit challenge is that people of varying degrees of
aptitude and disposition will be attracted to both. An enjoyable
experience connects many variables, and at core there is a placer
and a finder; it becomes easy to see how frustrations and
disagreements over protocol can arise.

Given my experience in other internet-based communities, I suggest
it's key that the disagreeing opinions be expressed as
diplomatically as possible, without acrimony. Not all will cooperate
in being constructive members and contributors. Ce la vie. I've
seen otherwise awesome online communities falter due to the
persistent negative influence of a few.

It's up to the rest of us to find ways to compensate. Public
reviews and commentary on the letterboxes and finding experiences
might help; it would be great if people could post their experience
with different boxes at the site the clues are maintained (maybe I
missed something, we're still somewhat new to this). Like Amazon.com
does for book reviews.

As far as feedback to placers - if it's not polite and friendly, I
see no reason for a need to reply.

As far as irresponsible placers - there's no way to prevent
irresponible people (or just people who's approach we disagree with)
from placing and posting clues. So it's up to the rest of the
community to police through accurate, level-headed feedback on these
pubic sites, and for the sites to make mechanisms for that feedback
possible, including "last found" information and more detailed
difficulty ratings, both by the placer and by finders.

I letterbox with my 9 year old; it is a family experience and a
teaching opportunity. While we don't expect 100% success, the
hobby will certainly lose appeal for children if locations and clues
are consistently too difficult or up-to-date information isn't
maintained. Since I suspect most of us want to see this wonderful
hobby perpetuated, it gives reason to behave in ways likely to do
so - basically, be a responible member of the letterboxing
community. Rate your placements accurately, keep track of their
status and update the website. If you can't meet those obligations,
don't place. And if you have a pattern of abusing the privilege of
posting your placements on public sites, you should expect to be
banned from further posting.

Again, the public, democratic nature of the letterboxing experience
dictates that the occassional whacko, jerk, or just someone with a
different or more extreme take on the activity than appeals to the
average partaker, is going to get involved, and the rest of the
community has to find ways to compensate.

Just my $1.02 cents. ;-)

> As far as irresponsible placers - there's no way to prevent
> irresponible people (or just people who's approach we disagree
with)
> from placing and posting clues. So it's up to the rest of the
> community to police through accurate, level-headed feedback on
these
> pubic sites, and for the sites to make mechanisms for that
feedback
> possible, including "last found" information and more detailed
> difficulty ratings, both by the placer and by finders.

I think if you would do some research you will find that this "last
found" information(database) has been hashed ,rehashed, and hashed
again. The majority of placers, at least those with sizable P
counts, think the idea stinks. The subject has caused intense flame
wars that from your text you wish to keep extinguished. Please read
through previous posts(see archives) before you subject us to
another round over this.


>
> I letterbox with my 9 year old; it is a family experience and a
> teaching opportunity. While we don't expect 100% success, the
> hobby will certainly lose appeal for children if locations and
clues
> are consistently too difficult or up-to-date information isn't
> maintained.



Not finding a letterbox can be a really great lesson in life. We
don't all get everything we want or look for. It makes success so
much sweeter.






Since I suspect most of us want to see this wonderful
> hobby perpetuated, it gives reason to behave in ways likely to do
> so - basically, be a responible member of the letterboxing
> community. Rate your placements accurately, keep track of their
> status and update the website. If you can't meet those
obligations,
> don't place. And if you have a pattern of abusing the privilege
of
> posting your placements on public sites, you should expect to be
> banned from further posting.


Excuse me. Who will do the banning?

>
> Again, the public, democratic nature of the letterboxing
experience
> dictates that the occassional whacko, jerk, or just someone with a
> different or more extreme take on the activity than appeals to the
> average partaker, is going to get involved, and the rest of the
> community has to find ways to compensate.


Our letterboxes are listed under "Don and Gwen", anyone is free to
search or not.
>
> Just my $1.02 cents. ;-)

On Monday, November 29, 2004, at 05:46 PM, gwendontoo wrote:

>> I letterbox with my 9 year old; it is a family experience and a
>> teaching opportunity. While we don't expect 100% success, the
>> hobby will certainly lose appeal for children if locations and
> clues
>> are consistently too difficult or up-to-date information isn't
>> maintained.
>
> Not finding a letterbox can be a really great lesson in life. We
> don't all get everything we want or look for. It makes success so
> much sweeter.

One of my recent 'sweetest moments' was right in this vein. My 7 year
old daughter and I were out LBing at a lake we'd never been to. The
trail was sometimes difficult to find and very slippery with ice and
leaves. I was sure we'd missed the box and, as I looked at the clues
*again*, mildly said "This is a little frustrating." My daughter piped
up, "Yeah, but it's about the hike, right? And this place is so pretty.
If we can't find the box today, that means we have to come back and see
how pretty it is when the trees have their leaves, too. And maybe I can
swim then."

Talk about melting your heart *and* being proud that the kid 'gets
it'......

Don't get me wrong - we often choose clues that seem doable for someone
her age, but even so, we dont' find everything. The very first time we
went out, we walked most of an afternoon and never found the box we
were after. Her little legs and my bad knee were not happy, but we had
fun. We talked a lot that day about how the box was kind of icing on
the cake and I guess it sunk in.

:-)
pezpam

irresponsible placers?
who is talking about irresponsible placers?
read the original post.
this is about an irresponsible and disrespectful seeker.

you can't find every box. why on earth would you want to?
enjoy the search. enjoy the effort that goes into solving difficult
clues. enjoy letterboxing.

phyto happens to be one of the most responsible placers I know, and I
can't solve all of her clues. If you think that you can't find a box
when reading clues; then look for a different box.

This is about respect.
Phyto deserves yours.
Libraries and Librarians also deserve your respect too.

There are plenty of easy clues on the LBNA website.
There are also plenty of hard ones.

Here's to intriguing clues!

---->sangfroid

I intentionally throw in degrees, NEWS, botanical identification,
historical blurbs, occasionally a foreign or reqional word and
almost always some sort of analytical 'leap of faith' requirement.
First, it keeps people of all ages mentally challenged (some moreso
than others), second--if the vandals want to chase down the boxes
(like our experience has often been to date) they'll have to do
their homework a bit more as I just can't seem to find my stick of
chalk anymore and dry erase markers don't work well in the very
rainy Pacific Northwest... ;)

As for interesting contact the placer stories, I had somebody
actually rewrite my clues to a letterbox series COMPLETELY and email
them to me insisting that I swap out the clues. Didn't happen & I
haven't heard back from that LBer ever since...

dvn2r ckr

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "mr_sangfroid"
wrote:



> Libraries and Librarians also deserve your respect too.


also deserve your respect too?

what am I some kind of knucklehead who doesn't proof his posts?

hahaha

----->sangfroid(DUH)

>As for interesting contact the placer stories, I had somebody
>actually rewrite my clues to a letterbox series COMPLETELY and email
>them to me insisting that I swap out the clues.

One can only hope they're out planting their own.

catbead

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "dvn2rckr" wrote:
> I intentionally throw in degrees, NEWS, botanical identification,
> historical blurbs, occasionally a foreign or reqional word and
> almost always some sort of analytical 'leap of faith' requirement.

I like your style!
THis makes me really happy. I know next time I'm in the PNW that I'll be up for some
challenges that make me think and will surely reward. That's my kinda boxing!!

Kudos to all those creative thinkers and placers out there. Thanks.

Phyto
Smiling and laughing now - thanks Jay Drew~

WHAT NERVE.

STAR:W+S=DRR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

WHAT NERVE TO WANT TO CHANGE YOUR CLUES.

STAR:W+S=DRR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for adding a little sparkle to this 'flame' -- to quote Art
Linkletter "kids say the darndest things" (or maybe that was a
misquote). You're a lucky mom.
Judy B
Fairfax VA
sewsowbizzy

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Pamela Smith Lenox
wrote:
> One of my recent 'sweetest moments' was right in this vein. My 7
>year old daughter and I were out LBing at a lake we'd never been to.
>The trail was sometimes difficult to find and very slippery with ice
>and leaves. I was sure we'd missed the box and, as I looked at the
>clues *again*, mildly said "This is a little frustrating." My
>daughter piped up, "Yeah, but it's about the hike, right? And this
>place is so pretty. If we can't find the box today, that means we
>have to come back and see how pretty it is when the trees have their
>leaves, too. And maybe I can swim then."

As a puzzle lover and somewhat of a newbie, I contacted a placer after
spending two days looking for a box. I wasn't sure how often placers checked on
their boxes. I have to admit that I was disappointed when the placer didn't
give me any help. AAA, but after placing a few boxes (and getting a compass) I
understand that it's all about the hunt, baby!

Thank you, to the boxer who has children and mentioned that it is a great
life lesson! Too many kids aren't being taught those anymore. In a world that
practically demands instant gratification while sitting on ones rear end;
letterboxing combines both physical activity, higher thinking skills and
respect for others and the environment. My son has been asking to go out with me
to box, and frankly, I thought it would just be a pain. I didn't want him to
go unless he could be in stealth mode. Truthfully, I act like an idiot when
I find a box with Dumpster Diva, so I guess he and I can practice stealth
mode together :)
Lipstick Chick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for adding a little sparkle to this 'flame' -- to quote Art
Linkletter "kids say the darndest things" (or maybe that was a misquote). You're a lucky mom.
Judy B
Fairfax VA
sewsowbizzy




In truth the child is also a lucky one because she has a mom who is taking time with her and providing the example that has taught her to see the glass half full. Too many in our world see the glass as half empty, and half empty usually makes us grumpy souls!
~ Memlili


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Judy B" wrote:
>
> Thanks for adding a little sparkle to this 'flame'

Just what "flame" are you referring to? I've seen nothing but the
back and forth expression of ideas on this list in the longest time.
Perhaps you should check your definition of a flame. Just because
people don't agree 100% doesn't make it a flame. It's people who get
upset anytime that something they don't agree with is said that have
caused the most trouble on this list. Calling everything a "flame"
doesn't help one bit.

It would seem with the direction this list is taking now with all
the talk of mediocrity being the way to go. Many of the better, more
imaginative players of this game are going to be ostracized by those
looking for instant gratification. Is this a good thing? I think not.

There are plenty of clues and boxes to choose from. Pick ones that
fit your liking. Plant ones that will bring joy to you. That's all
the people that write difficult clues are doing. Playing the game
the way they want to play it. They are not asking you to join in,
although you are certainly welcome if you are up to the task. Just
don't go looking for a short cut when you have difficulty.

As for emailing the placers about finding their boxes, well some
folk would rather not hear about it. Again, this is up to them. I
myself like the surprise of seeing who has been there when I check
my box.

Each to his/her own game.

Lynne C Doyle

As Don pointed out, the whole notion of a database that tracks finds of a
particular letterbox is controversial and has been debated to death on this
list in the past. A primary reason that most experienced letterboxers are
opposed to it is that they don't want to deal with the issue of "false
negatives" -- a letterboxer can't find a box and reports it missing, when
in fact it was there all along if only the seeker had interpreted the clues
correctly. This happens all too frequently; and I'd even venture that it
happens more frequently than a planter "irresponsibly" hides a letterbox or
publishes a clue. It's symptomatic of a growing letterboxing community that
is less close-knit (by virtue of its size) than it was a year or two or
four ago, and that today more letterboxers start out without a full grasp
of the traditions and accepted practices of the activity (such as the need
to be able to read a compass or to be aware of the nuance of the "pace" vs.
"step" discussion).

On the other hand, there is already a tradition to report finds and
potential problems in public forums. In the past, this list was used for
reports of finds, but more and more this function has been relegated to the
regional letterboxing discussion groups instead. This makes sense, since
the regional groups have strong community connections and more interaction
between planters and finders in a particular region. As a result, if you
want to check the status of a box, you can post to the appropriate regional
group or search the message archives for any recent applicable messages. In
this way, there already exists a mechanism for determining if a box is
missing, in place, or if there are any problems with the clues.

However, I think a more relevant topic is being missed -- that the onus for
collecting information before a particular letterbox quest isn't actually
the responsibility of the planter, but of the *finder." The planter hides
the box, then creates and publishes the clue. It's the planter's
prerogative about what to include in the clue, what not to include in the
clue, and how difficult or easy to make the clue. Beyond that, it's up to
the seeker to do any necessary prep work -- which might include any of the
following: getting a trail map of the park, determining the date of the
last successful find, knowing how to identify a particular species of tree,
figuring out how long the hike is, finding the starting location, knowing
what to bring in your pack (water, snacks, bug repellent, umbrella),
wearing sturdy hiking boots for a rocky trail, deciphering coded clues,
knowing how to use a compass, etc. The planter of a box may well give you
some of this information; other bits are mandatory expectations for anyone
hunting any letterbox; but in either case, it's an erroneous assumption
that this is ever the "responsibility" of the planter.

I also take issue somewhat with any assumption that all letterboxing must
be appropriate for kids, and that it's a planter's responsibility to make
sure that their letterboxes or clues are "kid-friendly." There are
thousands of letterboxes on which youd never take a 9-year-old to find;
further, it's always the parents' responsibility to determine if a
particular letterbox is family-friendly or not. And if there's any doubt
whatsoever, why would you take a young child out on a letterbox quest that
might be too long or for a box that no one knows is still in place? Putting
the burden on the planter instead of the parent is just wrong, and I don't
think many letterboxers would disagree.

IMHO, the biggest problem with letterboxing isn't the small minority of
planters who hide "problem" letterboxes, but a growing group of finders who:
* don't rehide boxes properly after finding them,
* don't reseal the plastic bags after stamping in to a box,
* don't use discretion when searching for a box,
* don't do their homework before heading out to find a box,
* don't supervise their children properly when letterboxing,
* don't carry replacement baggies and paper towels to clean and restore
letterboxes they find,
* don't make reports to the planters,
* don't understand the "leave no trace" ethics,
* don't take the time to understand how the hobby works (such as
hitchhiker etiquette),
&tc, &tc.

Just thought I'd throw in my own two cents, since I've been mulling on
these ideas for a while now....


|-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-|
Silent Doug, P48 F637 X104 E13
silentdoug@letterboxing.info
http://www.letterboxing.info


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just tossing in my $0.02 here.

I think Silent Doug makes several excellent points--i've been doing
this for less than a year, but all the same i'm astounded by the fact
that some finders think it's the placer's responsibility to do the
prepwork. To me, part of the challenge of finding a box is precisely
that: doing the research beforehand.

That aside, i want to propose a practical solution to one of the
issues Silent Doug raised. (Note: i don't have much of an opinion
about whether there should be a database, as i don't feel i've been in
the community long enough to fully understand the controversy around
it. Just want to make this clear here and now.) And that is this:

> As Don pointed out, the whole notion of a database that tracks finds of a
> particular letterbox is controversial and has been debated to death on this
> list in the past. A primary reason that most experienced letterboxers are
> opposed to it is that they don't want to deal with the issue of "false
> negatives" -- a letterboxer can't find a box and reports it missing, when
> in fact it was there all along if only the seeker had interpreted the clues
> correctly. This happens all too frequently; and I'd even venture that it
> happens more frequently than a planter "irresponsibly" hides a letterbox or
> publishes a clue.

If this is the primary problem with having such a database--and please
forgive me if this has already been suggested--then why not set it up
so that the database only lists the most recent find date for the box,
and only list it as missing if (and only if) the placer (or whoever
checks in on the box regularly) has determined that it's missing?

Granted, doing a sort of "qualified missing statement" might be more
difficult than it sounds on a logistical level, but the first
half--only listing the most recent find date--seems like it should be
relatively easy to implement.

I agree with everything Doug has said. I would also like to add that
most placers include a disclaimer at the end of their clues
(letterboxing.org does one too) that reminds searchers it is up to
them to be sensitive to their surrooundings (for their own safety as
well as they safety of the land) as well as giving warnings about
boxing with kids and other general info (how long is a pace etc)
Perhaps there should also be a disclaimer that reminds searchers that
there is no guarantee of finding a box...that it is up to the searcher
to do their homework before stepping out in search of the box.

And for the record, I think a database allowing others to comment on,
rate or catalog finds (a la Amazon.com) is a horrible idea. It takes
the fun and mystery out of the whole game. I personally don't care if
someone doesn't like my carving or finds my clues too hard. They are
more then welcome to comment on these things in my log book. (if they
can find it!)

That said, I do like it when people email me about finding my box (or
not finding it if they think it is lost) and reporting the condition
of it as well as describing the hike or experience they had at its
location. I find this type of exchange so rewarding and helps to bring
the letterboxing community together.

Limur

Silent Doug,
Thanks for your well reasoned comments.
Alafair


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Silent Doug
wrote:
> As Don pointed out, the whole notion of a database that tracks
finds of a
> particular letterbox is controversial and has been debated to death
on this
> list in the past. A primary reason that most experienced
letterboxers are
> opposed to it is that they don't want to deal with the issue
of "false
> negatives" -- a letterboxer can't find a box and reports it
missing, when
> in fact it was there all along if only the seeker had interpreted
the clues
> correctly.

> However, I think a more relevant topic is being missed -- that the
onus for collecting information before a particular letterbox quest
isn't actually the responsibility of the planter, but of the
*finder."

> I also take issue somewhat with any assumption that all
letterboxing must be appropriate for kids, and that it's a planter's
responsibility to make sure that their letterboxes or clues are "kid-
friendly."

> IMHO, the biggest problem with letterboxing isn't the small
minority of
> planters who hide "problem" letterboxes, but a growing group of
finders who:
> * don't rehide boxes properly after finding them,
> * don't reseal the plastic bags after stamping in to a box,
> * don't use discretion when searching for a box,
> * don't do their homework before heading out to find a box,
> * don't supervise their children properly when letterboxing,
> * don't carry replacement baggies and paper towels to clean and
restore
> letterboxes they find,
> * don't make reports to the planters,
> * don't understand the "leave no trace" ethics,
> * don't take the time to understand how the hobby works (such as
> hitchhiker etiquette),
> &tc, &tc.
>
> Just thought I'd throw in my own two cents, since I've been mulling
on
> these ideas for a while now....
>
>
> |-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-#-|
> Silent Doug, P48 F637 X104 E13
> silentdoug@l...
> http://www.letterboxing.info

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "lynne_c_doyle"
wrote:
> As for emailing the placers about finding their boxes, well some
> folk would rather not hear about it. Again, this is up to them. I
> myself like the surprise of seeing who has been there when I check
> my box.
>
> Each to his/her own game.
>
> Lynne C Doyle

I agree to a point and just like you said, We do not have to
agree with every view point 100% BUT like in any game you do have a
set of rules and one of the rules in letterboxing is that if you
PLACE a box you will hear about it. If you do not like that
rule then you do have alot of other games to play. I am not trying to
sound harsh I am just trying to put into understanding that for
something to work it does have to have a core base set of rules
that should never be changed or no one will ever have fun.

If you don't want reply's to your box then you should state that
in your clue's to the box. I for one would not go looking for a box
with that added in the clues and I am sure that is why you are not
going to see that statment in clue's very much as I don't think to
many people would go looking for it. Letterboxing has always policed
it self very well and I hope we don't get away from that.

Happy Hiking

Doc

--then why not set it up
> so that the database only lists the most recent find date for the
box,
> and only list it as missing if (and only if) the placer (or whoever
> checks in on the box regularly) has determined that it's missing?

See Atlas Quest.Ryan has a found listing, with a date. I have no
problem with this function, but that is about as much info as I want
posted about our letterboxes. If a "Finder" wishes to utilize the
chat list to publically comment on a letterbox, so be it, but in
that case the posting allows give and take communication. When we
find listings at other sites that do not allow placer input
(NewAgefor example)we remove clues temporarily or change titles so
that their information is never accurate.

Don

If any new people were wondering if there were eliteists in this game; let me introduce Mr. B.F. Gates. How original. Has anyone not thought to use that name since the movie came out, but then thought it would be lame. You know...because SOMEONE USED IT ALREADY!!!!!!!! You can just IGNORE this reply as you did originality.

Signed,...uhh....let's see

O.J. Simpson

gates_benjamin_franklin wrote:


Why? It is so much easier for me just to ignore the replies.
I wouldn't want to spoil a perfectly good clue with a bunch of
drivel about how the game should be played or anything else that
would detract from the look I am going for. Be it a treasure map,
picture or maybe just what some would think of as scribbling. This
is for me to decide. It's my clue, I will present it as I wish, not
as you wish or anybody else. If you are looking for convention maybe
you should look into Geocaching.

B.F. Gates




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ah, okay--cool. (And personally i agree--i'd rather just know when
the box was last found.) I'll definitely check out Atlas Quest.


On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:14:54 -0000, gwendontoo
wrote:
>
> --then why not set it up
> > so that the database only lists the most recent find date for the
> box,
> > and only list it as missing if (and only if) the placer (or whoever
> > checks in on the box regularly) has determined that it's missing?
>
> See Atlas Quest.Ryan has a found listing, with a date. I have no
> problem with this function, but that is about as much info as I want
> posted about our letterboxes. If a "Finder" wishes to utilize the
> chat list to publically comment on a letterbox, so be it, but in
> that case the posting allows give and take communication. When we
> find listings at other sites that do not allow placer input
> (NewAgefor example)we remove clues temporarily or change titles so
> that their information is never accurate.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
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What's all this talk about rules, when I started this I was told that
the only rule is that there are no rules. OK, admittedly the concept
was passed person to person with all the implied "rules" but it was
assumed that you were intelligent and respectful enough to behave like
a reasonable adult. I think the problem is all the media exposure
bringing in stupid people. Face it, when this hobby was more
"underground" people only told other people that they felt were
reasonably intelligent like themselves and people that they liked to
associate with. Now any boob able to read is getting involved and
assuming rules and standards that don't exist and developing all sorts
of unfounded expectations based on reading one poorly written article.
Yes, I know many who find out about letterboxing that way do some
research and are intelligent enough not to make erroneous assumptions
but there are just as many who don't (witness the impetus for this
thread and the attention it's gotten). I'm willing to let these stupid
people make fools of themselves and give them a little time to figure
it out but I have no patients for people who feel entitled to make
letterboxing over the way they think the game should, nay MUST be
played and pronounce everyone else troublemakers or elitists for not
acquiescing to their demands. And when did this turn into a hobby for
children. I don't think that was ever considered when this all started
up. It's only been recently that everyone began calling this a
"family" activity. It's great that those letterboxers with children
actually interact with them, unlike most parents today, but I don't
make my boxes for children. I don't have children and I don't know the
different endurance and tolerance levels for your 3 yr old versus your
6 yr old and I have no intention of adjusting my clue writing
accordingly because you've decided that this MUST be a family
activity. Didn't start that way, I wasn't introduced to it as such
and, as I said I was told, the only rule is that there are no rules.
Finally I would not be involved in this hobby were it not for the
interesting and challenging clues, I'm sick of the childish rhyming
clues and pathetic boxes hidden with no imagination, creativity, or
thought; just a piece of Tupperware flung along the road with an old
eraser that looks like it was gnawed on by a rodent or worse yet a
stamp purchased from aisle 5 of the local Michael's. I'm let down more
often by the dismal attempts to be clever than I am by a missing or
unfound box.

Well
Talk about eliteist, who uses the word nay? The overall tone of this post was snotty and pretentious. We're sorry for your dismay "professor."
I believe doctors have "patients."
And I have no "patience" for improper use of the english language.
Get over yourself, you pompous jerk, "nay" eliteist. Give me a break,... Doctor.

Consider yourself corrected,

Dink

mr_elsworth_toohey wrote:

I have no patients for people who feel entitled to make
letterboxing over the way they think the game should, nay MUST be
played and pronounce everyone else troublemakers or elitists for not
acquiescing to their demands. And when did this turn into a hobby for
children. I don't think that was ever considered when this all started
up. It's only been recently that everyone began calling this a
"family" activity. It's great that those letterboxers with children
actually interact with them, unlike most parents today, but I don't
make my boxes for children. I don't have children and I don't know the
different endurance and tolerance levels for your 3 yr old versus your
6 yr old and I have no intention of adjusting my clue writing
accordingly because you've decided that this MUST be a family
activity. Didn't start that way, I wasn't introduced to it as such
and, as I said I was told, the only rule is that there are no rules.
Finally I would not be involved in this hobby were it not for the
interesting and challenging clues, I'm sick of the childish rhyming
clues and pathetic boxes hidden with no imagination, creativity, or
thought; just a piece of Tupperware flung along the road with an old
eraser that looks like it was gnawed on by a rodent or worse yet a
stamp purchased from aisle 5 of the local Michael's. I'm let down more
often by the dismal attempts to be clever than I am by a missing or
unfound box.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Of COURSE it was snotty and pretentious! Look at the name... Mr.
Elsworth Toohey... then remember where that name came from (hint: Ayn
Rand).

-wassamatta_u


-----Original Message-----
From: Dinker VonDinkerstein [mailto:thenewdinker@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 1:45 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story


Well
Talk about eliteist, who uses the word nay? The overall tone of this
post was snotty and pretentious. We're sorry for your dismay
"professor."
I believe doctors have "patients."
And I have no "patience" for improper use of the english language.
Get over yourself, you pompous jerk, "nay" eliteist. Give me a
break,... Doctor.

Consider yourself corrected,

Dink

mr_elsworth_toohey wrote:

I have no patients for people who feel entitled to make
letterboxing over the way they think the game should, nay MUST be
played and pronounce everyone else troublemakers or elitists for not
acquiescing to their demands. And when did this turn into a hobby for
children. I don't think that was ever considered when this all started
up. It's only been recently that everyone began calling this a
"family" activity. It's great that those letterboxers with children
actually interact with them, unlike most parents today, but I don't
make my boxes for children. I don't have children and I don't know the
different endurance and tolerance levels for your 3 yr old versus your
6 yr old and I have no intention of adjusting my clue writing
accordingly because you've decided that this MUST be a family
activity. Didn't start that way, I wasn't introduced to it as such
and, as I said I was told, the only rule is that there are no rules.
Finally I would not be involved in this hobby were it not for the
interesting and challenging clues, I'm sick of the childish rhyming
clues and pathetic boxes hidden with no imagination, creativity, or
thought; just a piece of Tupperware flung along the road with an old
eraser that looks like it was gnawed on by a rodent or worse yet a
stamp purchased from aisle 5 of the local Michael's. I'm let down more
often by the dismal attempts to be clever than I am by a missing or
unfound box.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Now you sound snotty and pretentious assuming we don't know where the name came from. Google works wonders. Stop showing off!!

Consider yourself corrected as well,

Dink

Mark Berkeland wrote:
Of COURSE it was snotty and pretentious! Look at the name... Mr.
Elsworth Toohey... then remember where that name came from (hint: Ayn
Rand).

-wassamatta_u


-----Original Message-----
From: Dinker VonDinkerstein [mailto:thenewdinker@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 1:45 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story


Well
Talk about eliteist, who uses the word nay? The overall tone of this
post was snotty and pretentious. We're sorry for your dismay
"professor."
I believe doctors have "patients."
And I have no "patience" for improper use of the english language.
Get over yourself, you pompous jerk, "nay" eliteist. Give me a
break,... Doctor.

Consider yourself corrected,

Dink

mr_elsworth_toohey wrote:

I have no patients for people who feel entitled to make
letterboxing over the way they think the game should, nay MUST be
played and pronounce everyone else troublemakers or elitists for not
acquiescing to their demands. And when did this turn into a hobby for
children. I don't think that was ever considered when this all started
up. It's only been recently that everyone began calling this a
"family" activity. It's great that those letterboxers with children
actually interact with them, unlike most parents today, but I don't
make my boxes for children. I don't have children and I don't know the
different endurance and tolerance levels for your 3 yr old versus your
6 yr old and I have no intention of adjusting my clue writing
accordingly because you've decided that this MUST be a family
activity. Didn't start that way, I wasn't introduced to it as such
and, as I said I was told, the only rule is that there are no rules.
Finally I would not be involved in this hobby were it not for the
interesting and challenging clues, I'm sick of the childish rhyming
clues and pathetic boxes hidden with no imagination, creativity, or
thought; just a piece of Tupperware flung along the road with an old
eraser that looks like it was gnawed on by a rodent or worse yet a
stamp purchased from aisle 5 of the local Michael's. I'm let down more
often by the dismal attempts to be clever than I am by a missing or
unfound box.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"we ::::didn't follow your directions::::.........and it is .....missing"??????? bahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa I just spit out my pepsi laughing at that one........especially since today I finally went after one here in Gotham that I had been putting off....first I couldn't find it, fell on my butt a couple of times, stepped into a hole because it was covered in leaves..........and finally............duh.......figured out I didn't go east ENOUGH. Ahah!....there it is dummy! LOL
And it was STILL a great time and a gorgous day!
People are truly something else sometimes! LOL
missmoon


>Love it! My favorite recent note said, "we didn't follow your
>directions since we knew exactly where the box would be and it is
>definitely missing. We really wish you would update your missing
>boxes so we wouldn't waste our time on them."


----- Original Message -----
From: Drew Family
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/29/2004 3:34:07 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story



--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Peppermint Patti" wrote:
> This is a message I received about one of my letterboxes:
>
> "Was at your location and there was no letterbox. Friday"
>

Love it! My favorite recent note said, "we didn't follow your
directions since we knew exactly where the box would be and it is
definitely missing. We really wish you would update your missing
boxes so we wouldn't waste our time on them."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You got that one right!
missmoon



----- Original Message -----
From: exploreberries
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/29/2004 5:04:39 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story





Given my experience in other internet-based communities, I suggest
it's key that the disagreeing opinions be expressed as
diplomatically as possible, without acrimony. Not all will cooperate
in being constructive members and contributors. Ce la vie. I've
seen otherwise awesome online communities falter due to the
persistent negative influence of a few.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just let me say...
When I started this hobby I was turned off by this list because it got off
on a thread just like this one. I went to another list. When I came back,
you guys were all sane once again. I'm glad I came back:) For newcomers there
is an end to this negativity...I promise:)

I was the one who mentioned taking my 9 yr. old out. Let me mention that I
am smart enough to choose boxes that don't require a BS degree. Gee whiz, I
think everyone just likes to be heard. (this is America after all)

It's a hobby everyone, enjoy it your way. Wait, that sounded too much like
the Burger King theme, sorry


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/30/2004 3:34:30 PM Central Standard Time,
mr_elsworth_toohey@yahoo.com writes:

Finally I would not be involved in this hobby were it not for the
interesting and challenging clues, I'm sick of the childish rhyming
clues and pathetic boxes hidden with no imagination, creativity, or
thought; just a piece of Tupperware flung along the road with an old
eraser that looks like it was gnawed on by a rodent or worse yet a
stamp purchased from aisle 5 of the local Michael's. I'm let down more
often by the dismal attempts to be clever than I am by a missing or
unfound box.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

OKaaaaay, I don't understand..........

If you find some clues to be "childish" and you find some boxes to be
"pathetic," why are you going looking for those boxes? Why not set out in search of
boxes whose clues you find "interesting and challenging"?

One thing that you said tho, I *do* agree with. It would be nice if the
placer just included a short note about the stamp if the stamp is "store bought."
I'm a fairly lousy carver -- and always will be -- and a lot of times I'll
put a note about that in my clues, so folks can kind of know what to expect. I
can draw like nobody's business, but with carving, it just doesn't all come
together for me. And never will. There might even be boxers out there who
would *prefer* that I bought my stamps at a stamp store. :-) Tho I do think my
scarecrow stamp, my songbird stamp, and my Graue Mill stamp are pretty durn
good. But, let's face it, the rest are mediocre at best.

When Keith & I place a box, it's usually not really letterboxing for us. We
place boxes at sites that have really meant something to us for one reason or
another and we'd like other folks to explore and experience the site. So some
of our boxes we make incredibly simple just because we want folks to be able
to find the box relatively quickly, and then go explore whatever it was we
brought them to that site to see or do. Rather as if the letterbox search was a
*reason* to get out and see that particular place.

But to us, the letterbox is not actually the object of the search at all.
It's the waterfall, or the turkey farm, or the tall hill that Native Americans
used to use to signal trappers & traders as they came down the river, etc.
We're trying to put together a couple of "Limited Engagement Christmas boxes" to
place out near a cut-your-own-Christmas-tree farm because the farm also has
alpacas, emus, etc for the public to visit. So yes, our clues may end up
"childish," and with my carving ability, the boxes might end up "pathetic", but our
"mission" is to try to get folks out to see alpacas and emus, not really to
find the boxes.

We just went searching for and found a box in Buffalo Grove, Lake County, IL.
Being simple-minded, :-) , we originally set out to find the box because the
placer mentions, in the clues, looking for a good creek and bridge from
which to play Pooh-sticks. And, being fans of A.A.Milne, we were in a mood that
day to play Pooh-sticks. I'm sure everybody else out for a walk or jog in
that forest preserve that day thought we were totally bonkers, but we had a
*great* time playing Pooh-sticks off that bridge.

We found the box in about 10 minutes. We played Pooh-sticks for the next
hour, then we drove into near-by Long Grove, hit the Long Grove Confectionary
Company, and stuffed ourselves with some very tasty fudge. And we both felt it
was a very "successful" trip up to Lake County. I'm figuring it might be a box
that wouldn't be challenging enough for you, but for us, it was one of the
best finds we've had since arriving in Illinois. A guy, a girl, Pooh-sticks,
and some fudge, on a beautiful day -- can't get much better than that. Just
call us "simple-minded" I guess. :-)

Another box we went to find one day was at the Clarke House in Chicago.
(Great camouflage job on that box!) The clues were very simple and
straightforward, and we went extremely early in the morning because we were afraid we
wouldn't be able to retrieve the box with a crowd of people around. So we came back
at a later hour the next week and explored the architecture of the area, plus
took in a fantastic Vietnam Vet Art Museum, and stopped in the small cafe
there for some very good hot chocolate. These were things we never would have
experienced if we hadn't gone looking for that box. While the box itself isn't
"challenging," we considered the experience to be priceless.

Pippi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow! Who needs TV, movies, or books? We've got comedy, anger,
heroes, sarcasm(dripping, of course), villans, and DRAMA(way too
much by the way). As the saying goes everyone has an opinion and an
A-hole and yours stinks!(mine too!)
Goodnight everbody!
Oh yeah, lighten up!
Happy Holidays!!!!




Is this thing on?????

WW

Yet another rung down in the ladder of class.

Wascally Wabbit wrote:
Wow! Who needs TV, movies, or books? We've got comedy, anger,
heroes, sarcasm(dripping, of course), villans, and DRAMA(way too
much by the way). As the saying goes everyone has an opinion and an
A-hole and yours stinks!(mine too!)
Goodnight everbody!
Oh yeah, lighten up!
Happy Holidays!!!!




Is this thing on?????

WW




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tap, tap, Hello? Hello?
mmoon


----- Original Message -----
From: Wascally Wabbit
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/30/2004 7:25:16 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story

Is this thing on?????

WW

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have been watching this thread
all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is mediocre is
that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a clue, but
honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.

Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?

Somecomic

_____

From: JuneMcAllister [mailto:nfmoon@mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:41 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story


Tap, tap, Hello? Hello?
mmoon


----- Original Message -----
From: Wascally Wabbit
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/30/2004 7:25:16 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story

Is this thing on?????

WW

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you plant it, they will come.




On Nov 30, 2004, at 6:46 PM, Alan Marx wrote:

> Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have been watching this
> thread
> all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is
> mediocre is
> that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a clue,
> but
> honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.
>
> Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?
>
> Somecomic
>
> _____
>
> From: JuneMcAllister [mailto:nfmoon@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:41 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story
>
>
> Tap, tap, Hello? Hello?
> mmoon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wascally Wabbit
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 11/30/2004 7:25:16 PM
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story
>
> Is this thing on?????
>
> WW
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
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> //clk.
> atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1101861652615915>
>
> > M=296572.5585671.6651487.3001176/D=gr
>
> oups/S=1705065786:HM/EXP=1101948052/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12iem897a/*http:
> //clk.
> atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1101861652615915>
>
>
> Get unlimited calls to
>
> U.S./Canada
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> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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> letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fear not newbie! Team Jo Jo will appreciate any attempt you make. We all
started somewhere. The list is having the flu today, sorry for the
irritability. Have fun

Lipstick Chick of Team Jo Jo


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(Tongue in cheek) Anybody gets on a newbie and I'll have a moderator take a
swing at you with their stick.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Absolutely not! Anyone that plants is contributing and it's a learning experience. Try to make each new box better and we'll all benefit.

Choi
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Marx
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 19:46
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story


Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have been watching this thread
all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is mediocre is
that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a clue, but
honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.

Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?

Somecomic



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cool, I feel better. I was beginning to get the sense that this was a full
contact sport.

Stick beatings not withstanding, lipstickchick.

Thanks, I think I will now continue my interest in letterboxing
Somecomic

_____

From: John Chapman [mailto:john@johnsblog.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:58 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story


Absolutely not! Anyone that plants is contributing and it's a learning
experience. Try to make each new box better and we'll all benefit.

Choi
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Marx
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 19:46
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story


Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have been watching this
thread
all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is mediocre
is
that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a clue, but
honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.

Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?

Somecomic



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You're a good sport to put up with us today. Just proves you have the
tenacity and stamina that it takes for letterboxing.
Lipstick Chick


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't even want to tell you how terrible our first box was...and the
symbol on the stamp was carved backwards;-). But we are very fond of that
box because it was the beginning of what is definitely going to be a
lifelong adventure.

Ruby Tuesday
Of Celticlions

PS And by the way, we have received very kind notes from finders!




-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Marx [mailto:justacomic@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:46 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story


Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have been watching this thread
all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is mediocre is
that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a clue, but
honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.

Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?

Somecomic

Any stamp that someone has taken the time to hand
carve is worth finding in my book. In my opinion, one
does not need artistic skill whatsoever to take a hunk
of something and make it in to something beautiful.
The Sisters Act has a lot of new boxes in my area and
in each box is a very simple, very small hand carved
stamp. They're not spectacular with all kinds of
detail, they're unique, able to fit in their small
containers and in my opinion some of my favorite
finds!
Don't let the task overwhelm you! I often have to
remind myself: KISS (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!)

The situation that Speedsquare brings up fits here. I
planted two boxes a few months ago in which I
mistakenly put the wrong directions for BOTH boxes
(bad direction day). GASP...sometimes, placers make
mistakes that they don't intend to! You will get a
much better response if you take a breath, pause, and
write a nice e-mail kindly informing the placer that
there might be some direction problems. The Christmas
Elves did this, and it confirmed what I suspected...I
don't know my left from right! They were so keen that
they found both boxes even with bum clues! Writing
nice, non-accusatory messages will almost always get a
good response. So I changed the clues and let Speed
know because I knew she was planning on going up there
to find them soon. This is called COURTESY. I know it
is a foreign concept to some, but hey...it has always
worked for me.

We got some nice boxers in Indiana! We sure do!

--Armadillo Jo


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alan Marx
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 19:46
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer
> story
>
>
> Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have
> been watching this thread
> all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and
> my carving is mediocre is
> that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good
> idea for a clue, but
> honestly I am a little afraid of offending people
> by my stamp.
>
> Or, is this just a case of message board gone
> batty for a day?
>
> Somecomic
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "gates_benjamin_franklin"
wrote:
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wrote:


> you should look into Geocaching.
>
> B.F. Gates


Don't blame Geocaching! Or anyone!

When things don't go someone's way they want to blame
something other than themselfs for the problems they
started. I would hope that After finding well over 6,000
stamps while being just the 3rd person in Ohio to join in
on Letterboxing so many years ago and spending many countless
hours in meetings with parks to keep permits out and promote
the Letterboxer's as trustworthy people I would really hope
that I am not just speeking from the A-Hole but with a little
insight to letterboxing as well.


Also the point of rules I was talking about. Letterboxing.org
say's:

The old cliche is that the only rule is that there are no rules.
That is true for the art of letterboxing in many senses, although
there is some common sense etiquette.

The term "old cliche" is in fact a rule in itself. The word
cliche also means "A person or character whose behavior is
predictable or superficial" I can e-mail 95% of the box placers
and they reply. That is "predictable" of how we are playing,
if the other 5% want to cry and treat letterboxers like spam then
you are not predictable nor do they have any etiquette.

Everyone does things different and I love it. Some even go
outside the lines and I love those too as long as they are
on this side of the planet :O). We have a few jerks but with
as many people playing it's hard not to have a few. I
am not saying anyone talking in this tread is a jerk so don't
blast me for that! I don't reply to this board much anymore
because of crap like this. Anything you say you have a few that
enjoy bashing and flamming people.

Oh well, blast away!

Happy Hiking

Doc

What he said.

There's nothing worse than a stamp snob.
missmoon


Absolutely not! Anyone that plants is contributing and it's a learning experience. Try to make each new box better and we'll all benefit.

Choi
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Marx
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 19:46
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story


Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have been watching this thread
all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is mediocre is
that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a clue, but
honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.

Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?

Somecomic

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well this is turning a fun activity into a pia! I letterbox with my children, who are toddlers, if we find the trail is too long or too hard for them we don't find that box. I will find it later. No big deal.

If I have not found a box it never occurred to me that it was missing. Seriously, not until I started reading this thread did it occur to me that a box could possibly be missing. I just assumed I missed a clue or landmark or something. No big deal, there are over 12,000 letterboxes, I'll find one.

My opinion is this whole conversation should end. It's going nowhere and it's a bore to read.

I've been letterboxing for alittle over 2 years, love it, not going to stop no matter how hard the clues!



>
>
> What's all this talk about rules, when I started this I was told that
> the only rule is that there are no rules. OK, admittedly the concept
> was passed person to person with all the implied "rules" but it was
> assumed that you were intelligent and respectful enough to behave like
> a reasonable adult. I think the problem is all the media exposure
> bringing in stupid people. Face it, when this hobby was more
> "underground" people only told other people that they felt were
> reasonably intelligent like themselves and people that they liked to
> associate with. Now any boob able to read is getting involved and
> assuming rules and standards that don't exist and developing all sorts
> of unfounded expectations based on reading one poorly written article.
> Yes, I know many who find out about letterboxing that way do some
> research and are intelligent enough not to make erroneous assumptions
> but there are just as many who don't (witness the impetus for this
> thread and the attention it's gotten). I'm willing to let these stupid
> people make fools of themselves and give them a little time to figure
> it out but I have no patients for people who feel entitled to make
> letterboxing over the way they think the game should, nay MUST be
> played and pronounce everyone else troublemakers or elitists for not
> acquiescing to their demands. And when did this turn into a hobby for
> children. I don't think that was ever considered when this all started
> up. It's only been recently that everyone began calling this a
> "family" activity. It's great that those letterboxers with children
> actually interact with them, unlike most parents today, but I don't
> make my boxes for children. I don't have children and I don't know the
> different endurance and tolerance levels for your 3 yr old versus your
> 6 yr old and I have no intention of adjusting my clue writing
> accordingly because you've decided that this MUST be a family
> activity. Didn't start that way, I wasn't introduced to it as such
> and, as I said I was told, the only rule is that there are no rules.
> Finally I would not be involved in this hobby were it not for the
> interesting and challenging clues, I'm sick of the childish rhyming
> clues and pathetic boxes hidden with no imagination, creativity, or
> thought; just a piece of Tupperware flung along the road with an old
> eraser that looks like it was gnawed on by a rodent or worse yet a
> stamp purchased from aisle 5 of the local Michael's. I'm let down more
> often by the dismal attempts to be clever than I am by a missing or
> unfound box.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

For some it seems to be. Their loss. Ignore them and box on. Life is short.
missmoon


----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Marx
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/30/2004 8:01:08 PM
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story


Cool, I feel better. I was beginning to get the sense that this was a full
contact sport.

Stick beatings not withstanding, lipstickchick.

Thanks, I think I will now continue my interest in letterboxing
Somecomic

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey, I'm just happy to find a hand-carved stamp! I'm not gonna grade
anybody on their work; it's just nice if you put out the effort.

Don't worry; the board will be back to normal soon.

Knit Wit

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Marx"
wrote:
> I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is mediocre is
> that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a
clue, but
> honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.
>
> Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?
>
> Somecomic

Hi Somecomic, in my opinion any hand carved stamp is a great stamp!
Good luck with your box.

-Ryan
The Cichlid Guy

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Marx"
wrote:
> Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have been watching
this thread
> all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is
mediocre is
> that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a clue,
but
> honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.
>
> Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?
>
> Somecomic
>

on 11/30/04 1:44 PM, Dinker VonDinkerstein at thenewdinker@yahoo.com wrote:
First, liearn how to spell, then critisize.
>
> Well
> Talk about eliteist, who uses the word nay? The overall tone of this post was
> snotty and pretentious. We're sorry for your dismay "professor."
> I believe doctors have "patients."
> And I have no "patience" for improper use of the english language.
> Get over yourself, you pompous jerk, "nay" eliteist. Give me a break,...
> Doctor.
>
> Consider yourself corrected,
>
> Dink
>
> mr_elsworth_toohey wrote:
>
> I have no patients for people who feel entitled to make
> letterboxing over the way they think the game should, nay MUST be
> played and pronounce everyone else troublemakers or elitists for not
> acquiescing to their demands. And when did this turn into a hobby for
> children. I don't think that was ever considered when this all started
> up. It's only been recently that everyone began calling this a
> "family" activity. It's great that those letterboxers with children
> actually interact with them, unlike most parents today, but I don't
> make my boxes for children. I don't have children and I don't know the
> different endurance and tolerance levels for your 3 yr old versus your
> 6 yr old and I have no intention of adjusting my clue writing
> accordingly because you've decided that this MUST be a family
> activity. Didn't start that way, I wasn't introduced to it as such
> and, as I said I was told, the only rule is that there are no rules.
> Finally I would not be involved in this hobby were it not for the
> interesting and challenging clues, I'm sick of the childish rhyming
> clues and pathetic boxes hidden with no imagination, creativity, or
> thought; just a piece of Tupperware flung along the road with an old
> eraser that looks like it was gnawed on by a rodent or worse yet a
> stamp purchased from aisle 5 of the local Michael's. I'm let down more
> often by the dismal attempts to be clever than I am by a missing or
> unfound box.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/letterbox-usa/
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> letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
>
>
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>
>
>

In a message dated 11/30/2004 6:55:49 PM Central Standard Time,
teamking@entouch.net writes:

If you plant it, they will come.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Yes, they certainly do. :-)

Pippi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nope, youve just moved another rung down in the ladder of class

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Marx"
wrote:
> Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have been watching
this thread
> all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is
mediocre is
> that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a
clue, but
> honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.
>
> Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?
>
> Somecomic
>
> _____
>

But seriously, I have so much respect for someone who can take the
time to carve a stamp, find a spot to hide the box(I cant even find
a good size box), and write the clues.
Ive been working on 4 boxes for almost 2 months now and I even dream
about planting them. Im having fun but sometimes I feel overwhelmed.
Im very happy with my stamps, but I do wonder if others will enjoy
them as well. but I guess it doesnt matter what others think of my
work. I just know I put a lot of work into it and im very satisified
with it. (that and im feeling a little batty today =}
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Marx"
wrote:
> Excuse a question from a newbie please, but I have been watching
this thread
> all day long and I need to ask if I hide a box and my carving is
mediocre is
> that as big a sin as it seems like? I have a good idea for a
clue, but
> honestly I am a little afraid of offending people by my stamp.
>
> Or, is this just a case of message board gone batty for a day?
>
> Somecomic
>
> _____
>
> From: JuneMcAllister [mailto:nfmoon@m...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:41 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story
>
>
> Tap, tap, Hello? Hello?
> mmoon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wascally Wabbit
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 11/30/2004 7:25:16 PM
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: contacting the placer story
>
> Is this thing on?????
>
> WW
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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How rude.
If you don't like what this has become, why do you still play?


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "mr_elsworth_toohey"
wrote:
>
> What's all this talk about rules, when I started this I was told
that
> the only rule is that there are no rules. OK, admittedly the concept
> was passed person to person with all the implied "rules" but it was
> assumed that you were intelligent and respectful enough to behave
like
> a reasonable adult. I think the problem is all the media exposure
> bringing in stupid people. Face it, when this hobby was more
> "underground" people only told other people that they felt were
> reasonably intelligent like themselves and people that they liked to
> associate with. Now any boob able to read is getting involved and
> assuming rules and standards that don't exist and developing all
sorts
> of unfounded expectations based on reading one poorly written
article.
> Yes, I know many who find out about letterboxing that way do some
> research and are intelligent enough not to make erroneous
assumptions
> but there are just as many who don't (witness the impetus for this
> thread and the attention it's gotten). I'm willing to let these
stupid
> people make fools of themselves and give them a little time to
figure
> it out but I have no patients for people who feel entitled to make
> letterboxing over the way they think the game should, nay MUST be
> played and pronounce everyone else troublemakers or elitists for not
> acquiescing to their demands. And when did this turn into a hobby
for
> children. I don't think that was ever considered when this all
started
> up. It's only been recently that everyone began calling this a
> "family" activity. It's great that those letterboxers with children
> actually interact with them, unlike most parents today, but I don't
> make my boxes for children. I don't have children and I don't know
the
> different endurance and tolerance levels for your 3 yr old versus
your
> 6 yr old and I have no intention of adjusting my clue writing
> accordingly because you've decided that this MUST be a family
> activity. Didn't start that way, I wasn't introduced to it as such
> and, as I said I was told, the only rule is that there are no rules.
> Finally I would not be involved in this hobby were it not for the
> interesting and challenging clues, I'm sick of the childish rhyming
> clues and pathetic boxes hidden with no imagination, creativity, or
> thought; just a piece of Tupperware flung along the road with an old
> eraser that looks like it was gnawed on by a rodent or worse yet a
> stamp purchased from aisle 5 of the local Michael's. I'm let down
more
> often by the dismal attempts to be clever than I am by a missing or
> unfound box.